Comments on: Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/ A blog for the enterprise open source community Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:45:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source was good enough, will non-open source be open enough? http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-505796 451 CAOS Theory » Open source was good enough, will non-open source be open enough? Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:43:30 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-505796 [...] for open source and the industry going forward? Matt has covered how cloud computing can be both complimentary and competitive for open source software. I believe this question of ‘open enough’ represents a [...] [...] for open source and the industry going forward? Matt has covered how cloud computing can be both complimentary and competitive for open source software. I believe this question of ‘open enough’ represents a [...]

]]> By: splendidcrm http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-500911 splendidcrm Fri, 04 Dec 2009 04:14:27 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-500911 SplendidCRM is also available for Azure. But as a native C# .NET application, you might be able to leverage SplendidCRM to get a free Azure account when you signup for Microsoft BizSpark. SplendidCRM is also available for Azure. But as a native C# .NET application, you might be able to leverage SplendidCRM to get a free Azure account when you signup for Microsoft BizSpark.

]]> By: Le cloud computing peut-il tuer l’open source ? – Philippe Scoffoni http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-499576 Le cloud computing peut-il tuer l’open source ? – Philippe Scoffoni Mon, 30 Nov 2009 22:45:30 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-499576 [...] [Source] [...] [...] [Source] [...]

]]> By: Matthew Aslett http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-497763 Matthew Aslett Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:24:33 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-497763 Hi Larry, Many thanks for the comment on the two posts. As you say, in many ways there is nothing new here. The revenue dilemma isn't news to me, but I wrote about it to draw attention to what I see as a common misunder5standing about the Affero GPL: that is prevents the use of code in cloud environments. I agree there is much more to this than I covered in either of these two posts and I have received some very interesting feedback from very knowledgeable people (both here and via email) which will will include in a more formal analysis of the situation in 2010. Thanks Matt Hi Larry,

Many thanks for the comment on the two posts. As you say, in many ways there is nothing new here. The revenue dilemma isn’t news to me, but I wrote about it to draw attention to what I see as a common misunder5standing about the Affero GPL: that is prevents the use of code in cloud environments.

I agree there is much more to this than I covered in either of these two posts and I have received some very interesting feedback from very knowledgeable people (both here and via email) which will will include in a more formal analysis of the situation in 2010.

Thanks
Matt

]]> By: Lawrence Rosen http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-497423 Lawrence Rosen Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:56:58 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-497423 I read Matt Aslett's original blog, and then the addendum he had to post on 11/23 because he left out the important AGPL alternative. The AGPL plugs the GPL loophole that allows companies to provide services to third parties using *proprietary unpublished modifications to open source software*. I agree with Matt that the AGPL (or even OSL 3.0 that I wrote and prefer to the AGPL) doesn't solve all the problems he identified in his first post. His second headline calls the main problem "the Revenue Dilemma", which is as fair as you can be in identifying any commercial company's problems using copyright and contract law alone to protect a revenue stream. Age old problem you're talking about, Matt. It may be news to Matt, but it isn't news to those of us who have been helping open source and proprietary companies deliver profitable solutions for over a decade now. The revenue dilemma can only be solved with excellent products and services delivered with expertise. I believe that the AGPL and OSL 3.0 both offer a solution to a type of free-rider problem, such as Google's use of improved open source GPL and other code that is never shared with its competitors and customers. I have no problem in principle with that model, except that I believe that Google (and its ilk) ought to pay for that privilege to use free software for profit. The AGPL and OSL 3.0 plug that loophole. Even that is not necessarily enforceable strictly, because software can be run in lots of functional ways without invoking copyright infringement at all. And big companies like Google will continue to refuse AGPL and OSL 3.0 software altogether because their business choice is NOT to share. Isn't the notion of "privilege of subscribing for a fee" a fundamental basis for any open source company's success? So if some customers (such as Google) refuse software under a strict license like the AGPL or OSL 3.0, then your company should offer them a commercial license for a fee. That goes a long way toward solving the revenue dilemma. Your customers will understand. /Larry Disclosure: I am a member of the Jaspersoft Advisory Board and this comment was written originally for them. I post it here with their approval. Lawrence Rosen Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (www.rosenlaw.com) 3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482 Office: 707-485-1242 Cell: 707-478-8932 Apache Software Foundation, member and counsel (www.apache.org) Open Web Foundation, board member (www.openwebfoundation.org) Stanford University, Instructor in Law Author, Open Source Licensing: Software Freedom and Intellectual Property Law (Prentice Hall 2004) I read Matt Aslett’s original blog, and then the addendum he had to post on 11/23 because he left out the important AGPL alternative.

The AGPL plugs the GPL loophole that allows companies to provide services to third parties using *proprietary unpublished modifications to open source software*.

I agree with Matt that the AGPL (or even OSL 3.0 that I wrote and prefer to the AGPL) doesn’t solve all the problems he identified in his first post. His second headline calls the main problem “the Revenue Dilemma”, which is as fair as you can be in identifying any commercial company’s problems using copyright and contract law alone to protect a revenue stream. Age old problem you’re talking about, Matt. It may be news to Matt, but it isn’t news to those of us who have been helping open source and proprietary companies deliver profitable solutions for over a decade now. The revenue dilemma can only be solved with excellent products and services delivered with expertise.

I believe that the AGPL and OSL 3.0 both offer a solution to a type of free-rider problem, such as Google’s use of improved open source GPL and other code that is never shared with its competitors and customers. I have no problem in principle with that model, except that I believe that Google (and its ilk) ought to pay for that privilege to use free software for profit. The AGPL and OSL 3.0 plug that loophole. Even that is not necessarily enforceable strictly, because software can be run in lots of functional ways without invoking copyright infringement at all. And big companies like Google will continue to refuse AGPL and OSL 3.0 software altogether because their business choice is NOT to share.

Isn’t the notion of “privilege of subscribing for a fee” a fundamental basis for any open source company’s success? So if some customers (such as Google) refuse software under a strict license like the AGPL or OSL 3.0, then your company should offer them a commercial license for a fee. That goes a long way toward solving the revenue dilemma. Your customers will understand.

/Larry

Disclosure: I am a member of the Jaspersoft Advisory Board and this comment was written originally for them. I post it here with their approval.

Lawrence Rosen
Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (www.rosenlaw.com)
3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482
Office: 707-485-1242 Cell: 707-478-8932
Apache Software Foundation, member and counsel (www.apache.org)
Open Web Foundation, board member (www.openwebfoundation.org)
Stanford University, Instructor in Law
Author, Open Source Licensing: Software Freedom and Intellectual Property Law (Prentice Hall 2004)

]]> By: Links 23/11/2009: Sheela Adopts GNU/Linux, Pegatron Smartbook Debuts | Boycott Novell http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-496872 Links 23/11/2009: Sheela Adopts GNU/Linux, Pegatron Smartbook Debuts | Boycott Novell Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:53:03 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-496872 [...] Clearly there is a threat to open source vendors from cloud-based services. Had Sun launched MySQL-as-a-service on EC2 it could have grabbed the market share that AWS will now grab with RDS. I’m not sure why Sun failed to do this, incidentally. FathomDB did it, although it lacked the market presence to prevent AWS stealing the limelight. I would argue that Sun/MySQL could have done so. [...] [...] Clearly there is a threat to open source vendors from cloud-based services. Had Sun launched MySQL-as-a-service on EC2 it could have grabbed the market share that AWS will now grab with RDS. I’m not sure why Sun failed to do this, incidentally. FathomDB did it, although it lacked the market presence to prevent AWS stealing the limelight. I would argue that Sun/MySQL could have done so. [...]

]]> By: 451 CAOS Theory » The Affero GPL does not solve the open source/cloud revenue dilemma http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-496565 451 CAOS Theory » The Affero GPL does not solve the open source/cloud revenue dilemma Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:18:36 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-496565 [...] believe that cloud computing provides an opportunity for open source specialists, but agree that cloud [...] [...] believe that cloud computing provides an opportunity for open source specialists, but agree that cloud [...]

]]> By: Matthew Aslett http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-496305 Matthew Aslett Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:39:51 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-496305 No problem Mike, the point about who is seen to "own" the customer relationship is a good one. I would hope that the ability to pick and choose between cloud services to meet the needs of different applications will discourage companies from thinking of themselves as "a Microsoft company", "an Amazon company" or "a Google company". But you are probably right. No problem Mike, the point about who is seen to “own” the customer relationship is a good one. I would hope that the ability to pick and choose between cloud services to meet the needs of different applications will discourage companies from thinking of themselves as “a Microsoft company”, “an Amazon company” or “a Google company”. But you are probably right.

]]> By: Links 21/11/2009: Smartbooks and Fedora 13 Plans Appear | Boycott Novell http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-495663 Links 21/11/2009: Smartbooks and Fedora 13 Plans Appear | Boycott Novell Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:06:27 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-495663 [...] Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead And if you’re wondering why a cloud provider would bother working with an open source specialist vendor, rather than just taking their code, consider this: one of the cloud providers mentioned in this post pays for enterprise Linux support subscriptions rather than using a community Linux or supporting its Linux servers internally. And it isn’t Microsoft. [...] [...] Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead And if you’re wondering why a cloud provider would bother working with an open source specialist vendor, rather than just taking their code, consider this: one of the cloud providers mentioned in this post pays for enterprise Linux support subscriptions rather than using a community Linux or supporting its Linux servers internally. And it isn’t Microsoft. [...]

]]> By: dzeamsy http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-495179 dzeamsy Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:25:08 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-495179 Thanks for the great reference post.. This is really a great stuff for sharing.keep it up .Thanks for sharing, Thanks for the great reference post..

This is really a great stuff for sharing.keep it up .Thanks for sharing,

]]> By: Mike http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-494937 Mike Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:12:03 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-494937 Matt, I usually agree with somewhere north of 90% of what you write, but not this time. I started to write a comment, but it ended-up becoming a standalone post here: http://scaledb.blogspot.com/2009/11/who-owns-customer-in-cloud.html Matt, I usually agree with somewhere north of 90% of what you write, but not this time. I started to write a comment, but it ended-up becoming a standalone post here: http://scaledb.blogspot.com/2009/11/who-owns-customer-in-cloud.html

]]> By: Computer Internet and Technology Articles. » Blog Archive » 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-494847 Computer Internet and Technology Articles. » Blog Archive » 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:25:55 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-494847 [...] Go here to read the rest:  451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead [...] [...] Go here to read the rest:  451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead [...]

]]> By: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead | Open Hacking http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-494846 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead | Open Hacking Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:21:30 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-494846 [...] original here: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead This entry was posted on Friday, November 20th, 2009 at 11:49 am and is filed under Linux, News, [...] [...] original here: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead This entry was posted on Friday, November 20th, 2009 at 11:49 am and is filed under Linux, News, [...]

]]> By: Twitter Trackbacks for 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead [the451group.com] on Topsy.com http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-494845 Twitter Trackbacks for 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead [the451group.com] on Topsy.com Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:21:01 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-494845 [...] 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud - the quick and the dead blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead – view page – cached An open source blog by The 451 Group. [...] [...] 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead – view page – cached An open source blog by The 451 Group. [...]

]]> By: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead | Linux Affinity http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-494843 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead | Linux Affinity Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:17:41 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-494843 [...] original here: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead Posted in: Server ADD [...] [...] original here: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead Posted in: Server ADD [...]

]]> By: Open Source Web Development With PHP And MySQL | EZ Southern Cooking - Blog http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/11/20/open-source-and-the-cloud-the-quick-and-the-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-494836 Open Source Web Development With PHP And MySQL | EZ Southern Cooking - Blog Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:36:41 +0000 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/?p=1286#comment-494836 [...] 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead [...] [...] 451 CAOS Theory » Open source and the cloud – the quick and the dead [...]

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